Trapdoor Crafting Ratio
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As trapdoors are one of the most useful blocks in our rosters, being able to form thin walls, smooth arches, create barrels, and so forth, they are incredibly important for building as we do. The massive downside to their use is how expensive they are to craft.
For 6 planks, you get 2 trapdoors, a 3:1 ratio.
For 6 planks, you get 4 stairs, a 3:2 ratio.
For 6 planks, you get 3 doors, a 1:1 ratio.
First;y, trapdoors have a worse crafting ratio than stairs, and a "woodcutter" has been a highly requested block due to even just stairs. While the stairs may be tolerable (depending on your view) at 3:2, trapdoors are ridiculous at 3:1.
Secondly, regular doors have a 1:1 ratio, let me explain. A single door fills up 2 blocks, and 3 doors fill up 6 blocks of space. 6 planks, six spots. So why should the same amount of planks craft the same thinness of block at 3 times the cost?
What I propose is that we increase the trapdoor return of the default crafting recipe from 2 to 6 trapdoors to match the established ratio normal doors already have to planks, creating a 1:1 ratio of planks to trapdoors. I understand that this is quite a few recipes to accommodate all the wood types, but I feel this is a long-overdue change that Mojang should have gotten to a long time ago.
My feelings on the iron trapdoor are that because of the infinite supply of iron we have it's fine, but to prevent an outlier its ratio should also be increased to match that of the iron door with a 1:1 ratio of iron ingots. Thus, the iron trapdoor return should be changed from 1 to 4.
Love to hear all of your thoughts on this.
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You did show your math. I would vote yes on this.
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I will always support a proposal like this, regardless of the exact ratio we implement (though I do think Ioka's logic is fair). I realize that some people really care about the survival aspect of the server, and this change would certainly be different from ones we've had before in that this is already a renewable, craftable item with no material shortages. However, I firmly believe that any change which helps us worldbuild more effectively, and encourages more detail and substance in our builds, is a good one. I hope folks will consider this proposal because it would be a real game changer for building
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Big support from me.
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Wood is a renewable resource, and given we have the wither farm so is bone meal. I think this change isn't needed. (Not to mention composters for bonemeal as well)
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Before this goes to a vote or anything, please check that it's actually possible to implement lol. I don't know if custom recipes over-ride default ones.
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@ThunderPony The issue I have is that while wood is renewable, it is also one of the most tedious resources to collect. If I spend the time to gather three stacks of logs to turn into four stacks of trapdoors, when I could have had eight stacks of stairs, or twelve stacks of planks, it starts to become ridiculous. The fact that doors have a better crafting ratio at six planks to three doors rather than six planks to two trapdoors and take up six blocks of space feels like a mistake and oversight on Mojang's part.
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@Mimo Absolutely lol, any tips for where I could look to learn how?
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@Iokastos The issue here is you are trying to emulate something that fundamentally does not exist in the game. Just because there is a stone cutter does not mean that wood needs to follow the same path, and if it is intended to then we should wait for such implementation to hit the game proper.
We should be using these custom recipes to provide for something that is profoundly limited such as the bells. Not things that are just an inconvenience.
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@ThunderPony I'm not trying to emulate a stonecutter, rather than the existing recipe for doors. It makes no logical sense for the trapdoors to be so expensive compared to the other wood blocks. There's no reason such a standard material should be such an expensive block, and if we have the ability to fix that, why shouldn't we?
For example, bells are available in the game from villagers, just inconvenient and expensive to acquire, which is why we changed it. Emeralds are a renewable resource, as are villagers. They are far more difficult to acquire than trapdoors, however, bells are not used nearly as much when building. We made the inconvenient bell, convenient. Trapdoors should be convenient, their counterpart door recipe implies so. There's no reason so much of our wood stock should go into something so common when most every other wood based block has a better crafting ratio.
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I see where the opposition is coming from, but I wholeheartedly support this change. It's ridiculous that six blocks of wood can make three doors but only two trapdoors, with those trapdoors being HALF the size of regular doors? There should be the same amount of output from these two recipes.
I do understand that changing something like this isn't exactly a necessary solution to acquiring an uncommon block, but I also really agree with what Beij said: our main priority here is worldbuilding. This isn't just a normal Minecraft survival world, we're visualizing our fiction. And such a (frankly small) change would go a long way in 1) shortening the amount of time it takes to build, and 2) generally allowing members of the community TO build, because we're spending less time choppin' down trees to make more freaking trapdoors. I dunno about y'all but I feel like I use a lot of trapdoors and I go through them faster than any other "renewable" resource in the game. To me, this proposal is a phenomenal idea, if it can be done.
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We cannot apply a "logical" sense to this game, we are given the framework that the game gives us and we work within that. Changing such a basic block for convenience I do not think is a good enough reason for this and sets the bar far too low for any future changes.
I look back on things that I have put up and things that I have given my vote to and I largely regret them, each one sets precedent for the next and each time this happens we pull further from the survival experience. We are a worldbuilding server yes, but we are a survival worldbuilding server and that will require periods of gathering resources and periods of building.
Addendum
Honestly a petty reply but, I do not see trapdoors being a speedbump to anyone being able to complete builds. -
@ThunderPony Perhaps this is just a matter of word choice, and I don't want to nitpick if so, but if not -- trapdoors are by definition a "speedbump" for my builds. Gathering the wood for them is the second slowest part of the building process, right behind making the concrete for my roofs.
Whether or not this is a bad thing is of course up for debate, but I hope you will reconsider your final statement because, while it may not be a speedbump for you, the quantity of trapdoors I (and others) use definitely slows us down.
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Yeah, I don't think we need to be making new crafting recipes for items that are already craftable just because we feel like an item requires a little too many resources. We're not entitled to extra trap doors just because other crafting recipes give you more items per block.
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Update on whether or not it would work, it will work. "Datapack recipes should be able to override vanilla recipes." Thank you to Aron for the info
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I don’t know if this needed, yeah it’s a weird ratio but is an extra 6 blocks of wood (or whatever the exact amount is) really that inconvenient? I use trapdoors extensively in my builds (probably close to a stack per standard house) and don’t find it to be too difficult to work with. If I wanted unlimited and unrestricted access to a block then I’ll play creative, but we’re using survival so I don’t know if we need to adjust it to that level of convenience.
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I agree with Memeo on this, I don't think wood is a terribly hard resource to gather, compared to something like clay.
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@Mimo It is when those blocks could easily be used for planks or stairs or even doors. It's removing the resources from the pool completely unreasonably, as stated previously I believe it is a broken recipe. There is absolutely no reason we should subject ourselves to it when it is shown clearly with doors and other blocks it should be far less taxing.
Secondly, a 1:1 ratio is not creative mode. It's not infinite. I get the hyperbole, but it's entirely misconstruing this. The 3:1 ratio is ridiculous for the kind and size of block it is, even a 2:1 or 3:2 would be more intuitive. With how useful the block can be in shaping and acting as a vertical slab, there is no reason that we should limit ourselves on it.
Here's an example of how costly the trapdoors are.
There are 95 trapdoors in this image.
I could have used 72 logs.
I could have made 142 doors.
I could have made 190 stairs.
I could have made 285 planks.
I could have made 570 slabs.
Not to mention the trapdoors on the other side of the wall, the ones in the roof just off-screen, and the ones on the tower to the right. Wagons, planters, walls, vertical slabs, smoother curves, are just a few of their uses.There is absolutely no reason that trapdoors should cost so much and take so much away from the other materials we use in construction. Is crafting trapdoors so integral to Survival Minecraft that the experience would be ruined if the ratio were to be increased? It simply makes a very useful block more accessible, especially to those with less time to dedicate to harvesting forests. Can it be done? Yes. Same to harvesting clay, or red sand, or bells. But because they are unreasonably time-consuming, we altered them. Trapdoors are on a larger scale, unreasonably expensive for what they are and thus they take away from the other materials we could have crafted with those ingredients. They certainly deserve their recipe to be fixed by Mojang, and while we wait we can put our own bandage on it by altering the crafting ratio.
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Here's a visual if that helps anyone.
Left to right:
504 Slabs (continues off-screen)
252 Planks
168 Stairs
126 Doors
84 Trapdoors
63 Logs -
In regards to the visual above, is it the 1:1 you have issue with? Would 2:1 or 3:2 be more approachable to you? For a block that's thinner than a slab, I could reasonably suggest it be 6 planks to 12 trapdoors, but even I'm not willing to go that far.
