Build requirements Discussion


  • Baron

    this is my proposed build requirements for each rank, as well as some of the benefits that would come with each rank

    Proposal in fancy form


    Commoner: Base Rank

    Esquire: Here to stay, ~5 buildings but much liege discretion

    Knight: One settlement min 15 Buildings, but much liege discretion.

    Baron: 1st Vote, Realm Founding, Settlement of 30 Buildings, 1 additional settlements, 5 buildings

    Viscount:First FTP, Co-Build NPC, Capital - 40 Buildings, 2 additional settlements, 20 buildings,

    Count: Solo NPC, Capital - 60 Buildings, 4 additional settlements, 40 buildings

    Duke: 2nd vote, Capital - 80 Buildings, 6 additional settlements, 60 buildings

    Prince: 2 more FTP, Capital - 120 Buildings, 10 additional settlements, 100 buildings

    King: 3rd vote, Capital - 240 Buildings OR Two Settlements of 120 Buildings, 18 additional settlements, 200 buildings

    Emperor: Capital - 360 buildings OR Three Settlements of 120 Buildings, OR One Settlement of 240 Buildings and One Settlement of 120 Buildings, 25 additional settlements, 275 buildings

    Resolved with Charter: https://forums.candarion.com/topic/64/charter-for-candarion/9 -Alric


  • Withdrawn Baron

    I support. Though more options for decentralisation would be nice.

    This'd put me as a Knight.


  • Baron

    I think this is a good start. Overall numbers seem about right to me, However I'd like to see about discussing that we remove the required number and composition of settlements.

    If Im going for Count, As long as I have 100 builds (60 + 40 as I understand the above), does it matter how theyre laid out?

    I should have the option to build 2 50 build cities, or perhaps a 90 build city state and a 10 build supporting hamlet.

    Conversely, if I build a 40 build capital, and have 6 10 building hamlets, should that not equal count?

    I think a realm composed of just hamlets and small villages, or a realm which is just one megalithic city state in the vein of Venice would be cool, but neither would be possible as the above is written.


  • Baron

    for me, the problem with a realm thats just one or two massive cities is they dont have to put in nearly as much infrastructure work, which at higher ranks would be alot of work for anyone else, and they would essentially be skipping out on that.

    For the only small hamlet/villages thing, i think that higher ranks realms SHOULD have some kind of major center of culture, government, economy, and all that. An entire realm of small hamlets and villages just doesnt feel like a realm to me, nor does it seem like something that would be a cohesive unit.


  • Baron

    I'm in agreement with Septimus. The numbers look good, but more variation would be better imo.


  • Non-Participating Baron

    I'd agree with all the numbers, but I think Valeyard's right. There should be more flexibility with how you want to lay out the builds.
    Also, do we want to make some building size requirements for certain ranks. For example, you might need to have at least 1 large building for viscount?


  • Baron

    @Aevirath I can agree with that though. If people build these massive cities without any surrounding infrastructure, they are probably gutting their ability to claim land later.


  • Duke

    I think we are "what-ifing" too much. Catering to the one off outlier I don't think is the best way. Most realms are going to have farming villages, military outposts, logging camps, and other areas to expand their sphere of influence and eventually expand, legislating the minimums for that progression Is I think the way to go.

    Under the proposed system if someone wanted to make one massive city then they could easily district off the city in lore and make those districts the "settlements" while still being part of the city sprawl. This still allows for codified regulation for the vast majority of realms


  • Withdrawn Baron

    For sure on big city "districts", but I'm still wanting to advocate for allowing decentralisation more. Capitals are fun, and most people will build them - but is there a reason we have to force it?


  • Baron

    @Knaris the problem with that is most buildings are hard to determine a real size category on unless you are building cubes


  • Duke

    The largest issue with complete decentralized numbers is that every realm and every build becomes ambiguous. And ambiguity was a huge point of contention in the past system as well.


  • Baron

    I agree with the proposed system and disagree with the idea of getting rid of settlement types all together. This system is already a compromise between what Aldemeria had, a stringent settlement requirement system, and what Septimus is proposing, no settlement requirement system.

    I think that the number of people who would want a realm of ONLY hamlets or ONLY one giant city would be very few in actual practice. The proposed system allows, already, for a fuck ton of flexibility. It must also be noted that these are just the baseline build reqs for promotion and anyone can build more than these proposed numbers in whatever fashion they like; they just need to have, at minimum, 2 settlements that compose a total of 20 buildings.


  • Duke

    I think I would like to see some increase in numbers though

    Like 20 total buildings onto each rank viscount to Duke
    and 40 total buildings into each rank Prince +


  • Count

    @Aevirath said in Build requirements Discussion:

    this is my proposed build requirements for each rank, as well as some of the benefits that would come with each rank

    Proposal in fancy form


    Commoner: Base Rank

    Esquire: Here to stay, ~5 buildings but much liege discretion

    Knight: One settlement min 15 Buildings, but much liege discretion.

    Baron: 1st Vote, Realm Founding, Settlement of 30 Buildings, 1 additional settlements, 5 buildings

    This is 5 buildings over what count was, completely skipping the rank of lord. I thought we wanted a little more progression at the beginning. Change to 1+1 settlements, 20+10 structures. 5 of the additional could go into the main settlement though, you just need at least 20 in the main settlement, at least 5 in the additional settlement, and at least 30 total.

    Viscount:First FTP, Co-Build NPC, Capital - 40 Buildings, 2 additional settlements, 20 buildings,

    1+2 settlements, 25+25, this is 20 higher than previous rank, but still less centralization.

    Count: Solo NPC, Capital - 60 Buildings, 4 additional settlements, 40 buildings

    1+4 settlements, 40+60 structures.

    Duke: 2nd vote, Capital - 80 Buildings, 6 additional settlements, 60 buildings

    At this point we should have exponentially larger reqs as the higher ranks require more and more work. But the capital minimums should stay lower than the additional buildings outside. A realm should prioritize filling land rather than having one giant capital.

    If people agree on the philosophy behind this I can expand the higher ranks, but i would rather focus on the beginning ranks from commoner to count first. The high ranks should take a ton of work.

    Also remember we are also talking about individual work, and not allowing vassal builds to contribute (in another discussion)


  • Count

    EDIT: fixed the prince->king math for the old system.

    I made graphs!
    I kept emperor out because it would have made the y axis huge.
    Old System
    Aezyr's proposed system

    This requires a LOT less building, but we aren't counting vassal builds at all, So this is all being done by yourself. The overall numbers seem ok in this respect. But I don't like that capitals requirements are disproportionate to the total number. I don't want to just build one ever-expanding city. I want to build countrysides and various holds and towns. So I would like to lower the capital reqs, but keep the total numbers.

    If you want to build a city state under this system, you can always put more of the total buildings into the city. So instead of the 150 minimum for king, you are free to build 350 buildings in your city. Then you build 18 5 building hamlets to hit the total.

    I do support keeping additional settlements, because even a city-state needs farms to support it's population. So having 18 hamlets around it (even right against the walls) makes sense. This only equates to 20% of your buildings being outside your city-state in the hamlets.

    Here is Aezyr's proposal again, but at a different scale, and my proposal, at the same scale:
    Aezyr2

    Annisar's proposed system

    Remember, we are free to add more of the total into the capitals, as long as all the additional settlements have at least 5 buildings. But I don't want to be forced to put more into it, to build in a certain style, to get these ranks. as long as everyone is doing the same total amount of work.

    For emperor capital, I would suggest 225 minimum

    Source for old system: County was base unit, every level up was 3 of the previous, with a new capital number taking one of the places (duchy was 3 counties, but 1 duchy capital, 2 duchy capitals)
    Esquire: 5
    Lord: 20
    Count 25+5(2) =35
    Duke (3 counties) 40+25(2)+5(6)= 120
    Prince (3 Duchies) 100+40(2)+25(6)+5(18) = 420
    King (2 Principalities, capital amount not discussed) 200?+100+40(4)+25(12)+5(36) =940


  • Baron

    flaw in your math, kingdom was only two principalities, other than that, i can get behind those numbers


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