Custom Head Use / Spawning of Custom Heads to Use as Decoration


  • Minister Duke

    There has been quite the discussion in that tab in the discord, but this is the forum post for their use. As it stands this: https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/head-database.14280/ is a possible plugin that may be used to facilitate this, this plugin uses this: https://minecraft-heads.com/, which you can use to look at the possible heads available for use in the plugin.

    Personally, I am for the use of heads, but this is the official forum discussion.


  • Baron

    I would like to add that these heads wouldn't be free, you would have to trade in-game items such as "apples" for "apple-heads." It wouldn't just be handing someone blocks just because they asked for it. They'd still have to harvest materials and put in work to gain these items.


  • Baron

    Imma copy and paste my statement from the discussion in discord:

    " I'll just say this since the conversation already died. Is there another reason why we shouldnt use heads? It creates an extra layer to our builds that just expands the unlimited options we already have.

    At least with these heads I won't be inclined just to make more stuff with my custom addon texturepack. And the best part? You'll be able to universally see it.

    And raising expectations? I personally think that's a poor argument since you could apply that to anything new being added into the game. Lanterns? They sort of changed the way we use and place light sources, and most of the time we have to accommodate them (Salty about not being able to place lantern on stairs and slabs). I do realize that seppy sort of already said my point but it's something to be aware of and it's not an issue local to just heads.

    Also, 'you dont have to use it' is a fine reason imo. As a server, we dont have any set texturepack or really anything in law saying we need to use this or that. I feel like this arguement would be more valid if everyone was forced to use a certain texturepack but that isnt the case. Some texture packs have different models and repurposes certain blocks to aid in certain things, things that will supposedly, 'raise the bar'.

    Thanks for coming to my Tedx talk."


  • Baron

    My opinion on this is that I do not have an issue with it and see the many possibilities this could have. Signposts, log details in forestry, and cobblestone in mineshafts are all things that intrigue me. I like the idea of being able to have more options for detail if I want it.

    Personally, I almost feared the release of stone stairs and slabs. They opened up a whole new world of terraforming and I just didn't feel like I was ready. I was already having a hard enough time adapting to using stone brick walls in my castles, which has for the most part fundamentally changed the way I build. I still to this day haven't touched stone slabs and stairs because I can't stand the thought of what I would create if I terraformed. This is something I need to eventually learn and accept, but in the meantime, I will continue to terraform as I usually have. That doesn't mean I lack detail and time and effort in what I do. It's that I choose to not use the stone elements. However, I understand custom heads and how they work and what detail they could add to my builds. I can think of how I would use them, how I would place them, while I cannot do the same for the stone elements. Using these heads would help me with my decoration, but it would not mean that I would not have spent time and effort decorating with or without them. I am still decorating no matter the materials I use to decorate.

    I realize why people may not use heads may differ greatly from my reasoning to not use stone elements, but this is why I take no issue with it.

    I feel that custom heads only provide another way for players to decorate, not to replace the decoration techniques that we already use.


  • Count

    I see this as a benefit to the server and have always been in support of heads.

    I'm not sure how easy it would be to do trading apples for apple heads, and we need to do some testing. But either way, I would love to have things like apples to decorate orchards, and really improve our builds for those of us who choose to use them.


  • Prince

    I am against this for the following reasons

    This will drastically change the creative expectations of the server, and I can see it being eventually used as a gate for ascension be it personal or realm. This is tied directly to my next reason being that it feels no different than forcing someone to use a specific texture pack. If the server is built around us not telling people what or how to build I cannot advocate for this change.


  • Viscount

    Frankly, I do not see a reason why this would change the creative expectations of the server. To use your comparison, we already use different texture packs, and we have done so for a year now. Has anybody been denied an ascension because they used the wrong texture pack? I used vanilla on the old server; I think there were maybe two other people who did, so I was clearly in the minority. But I never took any (real) shit for it, even if some people might have thought my builds looked worse due to the textures.

    The point is, rankup requests are judged based on demonstrated effort. If you build undetailed buildings with an interior of a bed and nothing else, then of course you will be denied. But if you put in any semblance of an effort to decorate, whether or not you use heads, you'll be fine. I feel like there's this fear that builds will suddenly be held to some ridiculously high standard if we implement heads, but that's simply not true. I doubt you'll find anyone here who would vote no on an ascension simply because a person's builds were not masterpieces of creative artwork.


  • Prince

    @beijimon said in Custom Head Use / Spawning of Custom Heads to Use as Decoration:

    Frankly, I do not see a reason why this would change the creative expectations of the server. To use your comparison, we already use different texture packs, and we have done so for a year now. Has anybody been denied an ascension because they used the wrong texture pack? I used vanilla on the old server; I think there were maybe two other people who did, so I was clearly in the minority. But I never took any (real) shit for it, even if some people might have thought my builds looked worse due to the textures.

    The point is, rankup requests are judged based on demonstrated effort. If you build undetailed buildings with an interior of a bed and nothing else, then of course you will be denied. But if you put in any semblance of an effort to decorate, whether or not you use heads, you'll be fine. I feel like there's this fear that builds will suddenly be held to some ridiculously high standard if we implement heads, but that's simply not true. I doubt you'll find anyone here who would vote no on an ascension simply because a person's builds were not masterpieces of creative artwork.

    The difference is that there is no texture pack forced on anyone and there are no expectations weighed on anyone from a texture pack perspective since its purely a personal internal preference. While these heads are effectively forced on every person on the server regardless if they want to use them or not.


  • Viscount

    @ThunderPony said in Custom Head Use / Spawning of Custom Heads to Use as Decoration:

    The difference is that there is no texture pack forced on anyone and there are no expectations weighed on anyone from a texture pack perspective since its purely a personal internal preference. While these heads are effectively forced on every person on the server regardless if they want to use them or not.

    I don’t see how they’re different tbh, though I’m certainly open to convincing. Heads are not forced on anyone and, like I said, I can’t see there ever being an expectation to use them so long as you demonstrate effort in other ways. Another way to look at it: I don’t use prismarine in my builds even though it’s a block that exists in the game. Would you dock me points for not putting in effort to go farm it and use it? Presumably not; in the same vein I can’t see anyone being penalized for not using custom heads.


  • Count

    This seems like an argument of "I don't want to use them, so i don't want anyone else to use them either" which seems to be telling others how to build.
    I have hemp farms made out of tall ferns in ornthas. I'm using the tall fern for that use. But i'm not going to deny someone a promotion because they don't have a field of ferns as well. By that same logic, i will also not deny someone because they don't have an apple orchard with apple heads, even though I will have one in Ornthas. As long as interiors are detailed to the extent you can tell that it is a shop or a house, nobody is going to force you to use heads inside as well. But it gives people the option. Giving people greater ability to world build, on a world building server, seems like a positive to me.


  • Prince

    @Alric said in Custom Head Use / Spawning of Custom Heads to Use as Decoration:

    This seems like an argument of "I don't want to use them, so i don't want anyone else to use them either" which seems to be telling others how to build.
    I have hemp farms made out of tall ferns in ornthas. I'm using the tall fern for that use. But i'm not going to deny someone a promotion because they don't have a field of ferns as well. By that same logic, i will also not deny someone because they don't have an apple orchard with apple heads, even though I will have one in Ornthas. As long as interiors are detailed to the extent you can tell that it is a shop or a house, nobody is going to force you to use heads inside as well. But it gives people the option. Giving people greater ability to world build, on a world building server, seems like a positive to me.

    I am saying that I can't make a choice like this that is based on the perceived altruistic nature of the member base. Like you said, decoration can be achieved to a great degree without the addition of the heads, and if someone wants to go and do something special there is the addon pack or they can create one for themselves.


  • Viscount

    @ThunderPony said in Custom Head Use / Spawning of Custom Heads to Use as Decoration:

    I am saying that I can't make a choice like this that is based on the perceived altruistic nature of the member base. Like you said, decoration can be achieved to a great degree without the addition of the heads, and if someone wants to go and do something special there is the addon pack or they can create one for themselves.

    That's a rather sad and pessimistic view to take of this community, and I'm also kind of disappointed that you'd be willing to deprive people of creative freedom because you worry that...what, they'd not vote for your ascension requests?


  • Prince

    @beijimon said in Custom Head Use / Spawning of Custom Heads to Use as Decoration:

    @ThunderPony said in Custom Head Use / Spawning of Custom Heads to Use as Decoration:

    I am saying that I can't make a choice like this that is based on the perceived altruistic nature of the member base. Like you said, decoration can be achieved to a great degree without the addition of the heads, and if someone wants to go and do something special there is the addon pack or they can create one for themselves.

    That's a rather sad and pessimistic view to take of this community, and I'm also kind of disappointed that you'd be willing to deprive people of creative freedom because you worry that...what, they'd not vote for your ascension requests?

    I'm not really sure why you are attaching my concerns to me personally, but I am worried that someone down the line may face that yes.

    If we don't look at every addition we add to this community with scrutiny then there is no point in having any discussions beyond;
    Person A: I want it
    Person B: I don't want it.
    Person C : I'll vote for whoever is winning
    Person D : -Will forget to vote-


  • Viscount

    @ThunderPony said in Custom Head Use / Spawning of Custom Heads to Use as Decoration:

    If we don't look at every addition we add to this community with scrutiny then there is no point in having any discussions beyond;
    Person A: I want it
    Person B: I don't want it.
    Person C : I'll vote for whoever is winning
    Person D : -Will forget to vote-

    Again, I think this is a rather sad and pessimistic view to take of this community -- I think people generally make informed decisions about voting. And I also think it's pretty clear that I'm willing to scrutinize this suggestion. I've been debating it with you. So it seems to me that we're on the same page in that regard.


  • Baron

    So from a discussion that was had the other day I am in favor of the following; A curated list of 30ish (hard limit, this number never changes) heads that we all vote on that can be gathered for free from command blocks at spawn, or some other universal location.

    That being said I feel that Tywen's point is being purposefully missed here so if I can try to help clarify I will, as I too still share the same sentiment. When an official update comes out Minecraft and new blocks are added, eventually, given enough time, our cultural expectations of build variety and complexity goes up. We have seen this happen first hand going from 1.13 to 1.14 - and this makes sense! We get a new pallet of blocks and things and so the excuse for simple builds becomes more and more not acceptable. If we add any number of new blocks/decorations/things to the game we are increasing the variety of tools people have but we are also giving less room for people to not use those blocks (outside of aesthetic of course, think prismarine or purpur) especially because these blocks will be free and mostly universal.

    Tywen is NOT saying that if you dont use these specific blocks you will never get promoted. He is saying that if we start to introduce a variety of new blocks that eventually people will start to see builds that dont use them as not complete and potentially undeserving of promotion. Which is a real concern especially if we consider new players who might not know a server without these and who might become the New Guard of the server eventually.


  • Minister Duke

    First, trying to future proof so hard that it would be fine long after any of the current members here are gone or inactive is an effort in futility. Second, it would take considerable time for heads to be used so predominantly that they would become a gate to advancement that new people would see that they are needed because everyone would be using them. That in itself would make it a nonissue. We cannot stop people from voting based on whatever criteria they have in their own heads, and that has come up previously. We can't exactly do much aside from correct people when they vote based on what they believe for in the future as we have also set in place the inability to change votes. You all seem to think that heads will flood the server overnight and completely and totally change everything and all expectations. How often do people go back to old builds to fix or redo them? Unless that is going to actively happen in most places heads would only be put in builds moving forward, and if no one goes back to alter anything, over 800 examples to look at where no heads were used as decoration.


  • Baron

    I put a document in discussions the other day and had several members of the community fill out what heads they would like to see in the game. The number matches perfectly with 30. Are there any changes or alterations anyone would like to make to this list?

    • Cobblestone
    • Apple
    • Bookshelves
    • Stone brick
    • Log sideways
    • Log upright
    • Grapes
    • Tiny Pumpkin 😄
    • Peaches
    • Pear
    • Corn 🌽
    • Apricot
    • Blackberry
    • Sack of flour
    • Orange
    • Lemon
    • Snowman Head
    • Present
    • Bread
    • Globe
    • Ink
    • Sack of Herbs
    • Hourglass
    • Beehive
    • Iron Ingots
    • Gold Ingots
    • Books
    • Yarn in a basket
    • Wooden sign with arrow pointing right
    • Wooden sign with arrow pointing left

  • Count

    i'd like to see some type of crate/box/wooden storage device, to fill attics, pantries, and other storage areas. not sure which I would want to get rid of.

    also are apricots and blackberry's bushes, or just the berry? thats a big berry if thats the case.



  • I’m surprised there’s no beer or other beverage head on that list, otherwise looks good to me.


  • Minister Duke

    I don't think that it was the intent to only ever have this many heads, just that it was the number we were starting with, and having the possibility of adding more if that is what the community wants in batches. At least that was my idea of it. @Alric the blackberry is one big one i think but it looks a bit like a bunch of them too


Log in to reply
 

10
Online

230
Users

1.2k
Topics

5.5k
Posts