Adding Specialized Builds as Requirements for Ranking Up

  • Minister Duke

    This proposal is to add the requirement of specialized builds for ranking up in personal progression.

    The numbers and limits are as follows:

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    Specialized Buildings - This identifier outlines types of buildings that are non-residential and non-agricultural that have some specific/specialized value. This includes, but is not limited to, churches/temples, markets/stores, mines/forges, drydocks, universities/schools, fortresses/keeps, nether portal buildings, etc. Specialized buildings have distinct purposes and as such are differentiated from more generic style builds; A dyery or bowyer is distinct from generic stalls or general stores and would, ideally, have distinct designs to showcase this.

    A good example of different types of builds is in the following document but is not limited to the following document.


  • Knight

    @bryson3842 will the addition of this affect current ranks? Like I’m a knight (courtier now I guess?) and I don’t have the unique build count, would I get downgraded?

  • Minister Duke

    I would say for implementation you would keep the closest equivalent rank, but you are unable to rank up further until you meet the requirements of your current rank, and of course the next rank you are ranking up towards. I don't expect the pre-baron step to not pass as people have generally been in favor of pruning ranks before being able to vote, and thus this was designed with that in mind. And see this discussion to talk about ranks prior to the Baron rank.

  • Viscount

    This falls under the idea of constricting what people are able to do, forcing them to do additional things for the sake of a rankup. I say let people build what they want, when they want. Build totals are the only thing we should be measuring.

  • Minister Duke

    @Darius considering this is already an unofficial requirement I would much rather have numbers to meet instead of not.

  • Count

    "that together include forms of residential presence, several industries, economy, cultural development, secure infrastructure and connections to other locations as appropriate."

    That was how we worded it on Aldemeria. We ended up scrapping that and allowing people to decide for themselves whether there was enough variety in the builds, because nobody could agree on a uniform system. as soon as you make a uniform system, you are forcing people into that uniformity.. and stifling creativity.

    The other issue I have is that if people can't be bothered to tour realms, who is going to go into every building and write out a list to make sure a 3rd smith doesn't get counted as an industry build... But wait, what if 2 are iron smiths, and 1 is a gold smith, as differentiated by putting a gold block instead of an iron block? does that count as a whole different industry? is a sword smith different from an armor smith? What if someone wants to build a dwarf realm that is really good at smithing and nothing else. All they do is smith and grow some food for themselves (since agriculture doesnt count) then that person can never rank up, unless they change their vision.

    I think this is a step backwards and reintroducing a problem we already got rid of.

  • Baron

    @Alric I agree with what you've said.

  • Minister Duke

    @Alric To have a functioning society you would need more than smiths. I can think of half a dozen professions that you need before you even get to actually smithing something. And then you have to sell those goods. We already judge people on these when they are looking to rank up, it is less fair to others when there are no concrete numbers and someone just says sorry this isn't enough, can't tell you what is tho.

    As I am reiterating, people already judge on this, there is no reason not to have actual numbers to shoot for when instead we have a vague mess already. You say that this is a step backwards, but I would much rather have solid numbers to work towards than to just guess as I go.

  • Baron

    @Alric We actually didnt scrap that system - some people just stopped following it because only Cerdic was policing it and when he went away for that summer he stopped policing it lol

    I think Bryson also has a point here; we already judge based on this criteria but what we currently have is a vague mess which everyone is constantly complaining about, this is an attempt to remedy the vagueness while keeping the unspoken rule we have always had.

  • Count

    @LawnBoy072 Who is going to police it then? Cerdic isnt here. People don't tour as it is. What is the point of passing a law that nobody will enforce?

  • Minister Duke

    @Alric I would rather have it as something to point towards when someone says that you have insufficient nonhouse structures. Wanting numbers on something is nowhere near the same thing as restricting creativity. Saying you have to have a certain number of a very broad category is simply spelling out a method to be sure of when you are ready to advance.

    Going back to your prior example of the land with only blacksmiths, I know for a fact people would vote against it if it only had blacksmiths for their professions. You cannot tell me that people wouldn't. Having actual concrete numbers prevents you from being told just a blanket no so long as you actually meet the requirements.

  • Baron

    @Alric We are gonna bring the Minister tour thingy up for vote too - then we will have people with eyes on the reqs like we wanted.

  • Esquire

    @bryson3842 Not that my opinion matters legally, but this, in conjunction with some of the other proposals would make it significantly more difficult to reach Baron. If I, or any of the current lowborns reaches Baron under the new rules we will have passed higher standards than almost anyone else currently playing. My concern is that the current requirements are already a significant investment of time, and adding more extraneous stuff to it may be daunting and put people off.

  • Minister Duke

    @Sir-Jon Your opinion does matter, but again, this is not a higher standard, the standard is already there. Putting a number on it clarifies the amount needed. If you were to go for baron, people would vote no if you only had houses. Having less than a third of your builds be something other than a house is not a hard requirement to hit. The list that I posted with the main thread gives a great variety, and you are able to come up with more outside of that.

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